Eric Woodard on Mindset, Trust, and Job Search Strategies for 2025

Please note this is a condensed transcript. The full transcript can be found on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Please enjoy the episode!

Margaret:
Welcome back to Career Pulse DC, the show where we explore the people, policy, and pathways shaping today’s workforce. I’m your host, Margaret, and today we’re diving into hiring trends and career strategy in 2025 with my guest, Eric—a high-performance career coach, public servant, and host of the Win at Work Podcast.

After years shaping policy, Eric now helps professionals get clear, confident, and hired through his coaching programs and podcast. We’ll talk about today’s job market, his coaching framework, and how he helps job seekers find work that matters. Welcome, Eric. How are you?

Eric:
Hey, Margaret, it’s so nice to meet you. A lot of job seekers need help, and the fact that programs like this exist means a lot. I’ve been a big fan of Brad and the team for a long time—great to be here.

Margaret:
Thank you! Why don’t you start by introducing your background and what inspired you to help others navigate their careers?

Eric:
I grew up overseas, came to the U.S. at 17, and transferred colleges seven times. Eventually I became a scuba instructor on Guam—about 10,000 hours underwater. I wanted a prestigious job, so I hand-wrote a letter to the White House. To my surprise, they sent me an internship application. I didn’t know what an internship was, but I applied. Months later, while in D.C. for grad school, I called to follow up—they told me I was supposed to start in the First Lady’s Office on Monday.

That led to years working for Hillary Clinton in the White House, Senate, and State Department, and then directing fellowships at the Smithsonian. I helped people figure out their careers at every step. About five years ago, with my wife’s encouragement, I left to start my coaching practice. Since then, I’ve helped about 1,000 job seekers find their next thing.

Margaret:
What an amazing happenstance! Did you know early on you wanted to go into coaching?

Eric:
Not at all. I had this growing voice seeing great people struggle to find outlets for their skills. It frustrated me. After helping early professionals at the Smithsonian, I decided to make it my work. My wife finally said, “Stop talking about it and do it,” so I did.

Margaret:
We’ve seen a lot of clickbait articles lately about layoffs and a tough job market for graduates. Does 2025 feel unique or more challenging?

Eric:
No one has ever told me, “This is the best job market.” It’s easy to blame the market, the economy, our age, our industry. But you can choose the story you tell yourself—either “there are no jobs” or “there are jobs everywhere.” Both are equally believable. The story you choose should be the one that propels you forward.

Margaret:
You often speak about mindset in job seeking. Can you share more?

Eric:
Employers want to know one thing: “Can we trust you?” Everything else—skills, experience, mistakes—feeds that question. If you can make them feel seen, heard, understood, and safe, you win. But you can’t make someone feel safe if you don’t feel safe yourself. That’s why mindset is critical.

Fraser:
How many people come to you looking to pivot careers, even just a little, because they’re burned out or tired of politics?

Eric:
Plenty. Sometimes people think they need to erase their past experience to make a pivot—like a teacher who wants to work in museums. I tell them not to throw away their career capital. Leadership, communication, and people skills transfer. Often the pivot isn’t as big as they think.

Margaret:
What about gatekeepers—ATS systems, executive search firms? How can people break through?

Eric:
There’s no universal ATS robot hiring people. Humans hire humans. Yes, some tools sort résumés, but you can often bypass them. Follow the rules, then find a live human. And when you reach out, make it about them, not you. Avoid “I” statements; instead, acknowledge their work and value.

Margaret:
How should cold outreach be framed?

Eric:
For example, instead of saying, “I love your podcast,” you could say, “The work you do to help job seekers matters so much. You take valuable time to offer this for free, and that says a lot about you.” Make it about them. When you align your perspective with theirs, it’s like a Jedi mind trick.

Margaret:
What are your thoughts on informational interviews?

Eric:
If there’s no specific opportunity, approach it as asking for advice. That’s actually giving a gift—people love to give advice. It signals you value their knowledge.

Margaret:
Besides safety, what else do employers prioritize?

Eric:
Everything else—skills, flexibility, credentials—are just indicators of safety. Trust is built through vulnerability. People believe what you show more than what you tell.

Fraser:
Yeah, I think we’ve talked about authenticity a couple of times and how to encourage people to be authentic in interviewing. And it’s hard to overcome your nerves and maybe some intimidation if you’re meeting with an executive board or something like that. But I’m sure you have a lot of tactics when you’re coaching people on how to feel comfortable, feel authentic, just be yourself. Because if you’re not, you’re not going to be successful in that job anyway. You don’t want to show up and try to be someone you’re not.

Eric:
I could not agree more.

Yeah, I mean, look, in DC, we all know this firsthand. It’s never the scandal. It’s always the cover-up. This is one of the things like when people hide their age on a resume. It’s like, hey, I want you to trust me and hire me, yet I don’t trust you. I’m gonna hide stuff. Now look, guys, I’m not gonna say there aren’t “isms” out there: racism, sexism, ageism,etc. The world is not a fair place. But at the end of the day, we want to be authentic, we want to be vulnerable. The other advantage of not making it about ourselves is that if the interview is all about us, well, gosh, that’s a lot of pressure. But if it’s not about us, if we make it all about them, then it’s about what’s possible for them. And then it’s easier to be authentic because it’s not a performance.

Fraser:
Can you share your coaching framework?

Eric:
It’s group and one-on-one coaching, plus an online course with 15 short modules. It starts with mindset, then clarity on how you help the world, then systems for consistency, identifying opportunities, résumés and cover letters, follow-up, networking, interviews, and offers. Without clarity and confidence, even the best résumé won’t work.

Margaret:
Employers now use multi-step hiring processes. Thoughts?

Eric:
It’s easy to get frustrated, but reframe it as their need for safety. Use those extra steps to focus on them in presentations and interviews, and tell stories—emotion drives 100% of decisions, even when people think it’s logic.

Margaret:
What about storytelling in résumés?

Eric:
A résumé should be about them, tell authentic stories, and build trust. Skills alone don’t get you hired—trust does.

Fraser:
Do your clients span industries and ages?

Eric:
Yes. I’ve coached people from 17 to 75, in every industry. The specifics vary, but everyone’s fears and roadblocks are unique.

Margaret:
Advice for those with gaps due to caregiving?

Eric:
The dreaded gap, right? I have a gap. I have a gap on my resume and now I’m cursed. I have a scarlet letter, right? So look, mean, first of all, I don’t think the gap’s as big of a deal as they say. Now look, if it’s a 20 year hiatus, okay, then we might have to do a little storytelling in our resume. Not lies, storytelling. And the opportunity is just to be really honest. It’s just like, yeah, my mom was sick and she died and now I’m back in the workforce. If I heard that from another person, would you think my level of trust would go up or down? It would go way the F up. Way up. Vulnerability. Remember humans hire humans. So the opportunity is for us to give them evidence that we’re human. 

Margaret:
And advice for those affected by federal RIFs or freezes?

Eric:
There’s usually sympathy for that situation. Reframe it from “Why is this happening to me?” to “Why is this happening for me?” It might be an opportunity to serve in a new way.

Fraser:
Does job seeking have to be a full-time job?

Eric:
It doesn’t have to be a full-time job. What I would say is sometimes what I see happen is people are out there just beating the hell out of themselves job searching and as a result what happens their level of psychological safety goes down and it becomes this vicious circle where they’re beating themselves up. So the real opportunity is however one’s going about a job search, like you got to take care of yourself and it can be hard because you’re like I don’t have money and my wife’s the only one working and fill in the blank, right? And so maybe we don’t go to that concert or get that extra cup of coffee at Starbucks or whatever, but it’s those little things that whatever we do to give ourselves safety really matters. So I’m not a huge fan of job searching full time. I would rather have somebody give 90 minutes a day and then pack up and spend the rest of the day getting their level of safety up. And that can be connecting with people they love or exercising or, you know, like trimming their bonsai tree. LARPing. That’s what I would do, that tends to be a recipe for success. You know, I’m a big fan of kind of like one application a day. Because if you’re doing that with follow-up, with networking, you know, that’s a good two or three hours right there. And then be done. 

Margaret:
What does good follow-up look like?

Eric:
Don’t tell them you’d be good for the role—leave space for them to connect the dots. Reach out with genuine acknowledgment, and let their curiosity lead them back to you.

Margaret:
So even if an executive search firm is handling the role, follow up with someone higher up like the CEO?

Eric:
Yes. It might upset the search firm, but hiring managers can override automated rejections if they want to talk to you.

Remember: If you’re job searching, you’re not alone. There’s nothing wrong with you. If your current system isn’t working, change it. Even in dark times, you’re the candle that can’t be extinguished.

Margaret:
Thank you, Eric. This has been Career Pulse DC. Thanks for listening.